Gold is a dreadful investment because..... All the reasons to avoid Gold by Steve Netwriter

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Steve Netwriter
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Gibber asked:

Gibber wrote:
Done any reading on confirmation bias lately Steve?

Have you tried to find any information that would dis-confirm your hypothesis about Gold?

Being blunt it appears to me that all your comments are positive. There is no fear. And no questioning.

My reply is quite lengthy.

I've been learning as much as I can about economics and money, and one of the important components of the history of economies and the money that countries use involves gold & silver.

Gold is obviously important because it has been prominent in so many events. It is the most dense safe long-lasting store of wealth. Silver is also important, but tends to be used as money.
Central banks still hold gold. It is still a significant factor when studying real economics.

Given the long history of gold having a monetary aspect, and the relatively very short period during which all currencies in the world are not backed by gold, we have reached a stage in which the majority of people have very little knowledge of gold & silver. Most see them as only relevant to jewellery. Their knowledge (or lack of it) is only matched by their knowledge of how the money system works.

At least that is the way it is in the "west". This lack of appreciation for gold & silver is not matched throughout the globe, and those in the "west" should take note.

This table shows where in the world the buying of gold coins and bars takes place.

This means that in the "west" gold tends to be held by the banks, whereas in the "east" gold is more distributed among the people.

The following are common statements from those in the "west" who do not understand gold. I would class them as not genuine, and worthy of instant dismissal.

It's just speculation.

Gold doesn't pay interest.

x, y & z (whatever they wrote) are just gold rampers (spruikers) (so ignore everything they write).

You're only talking about gold because you want other mugs to buy it to push the price up so you will make a profit.

Gold is just a commodity (it's not money).

Gold will be made from lead soon (the Large Hadron Collider gains the ability to produce gold).

You can't buy a loaf of bread with a bar of gold.

It's unusual to hold gold therefore anything you want to do with it is not 'the norm' making everything that bit harder.

If you are made unemployed then you will have to sell your gold anyway.

Gold bugs are nutters so buying gold must be nuts.

Owning gold - or elaborating on the reasons for owning gold might make one come across as a right wing neo-con nut.

You can't eat gold.

You can't live in it.

Gold bugs are evil and want to be the plutocrats of the future.

Owning gold is socially irresponsible and down-right anti-social. If everyone hoarded gold and stopped spending money and supporting the economy where would we be.

Money should be considered no more than the means of exchange, and the quicker we exchange it the better. Squireling anything away for posterity is not only an antiquated idea, but a selfish and immoral one.

It wears holes in your pockets.

The people that hold it have absolutely no use for it.

Gold Is a Barbarous Relic.

Gold is metal.

People don't understand gold, people understand houses.

Few brokers can make money from gold, support your economy, buy stocks and shares, the city needs your commissions.

Gold is not easily divisible, what ya going to do? Smelt off a bit to pay for dinner or your drinks bill?

Semi-genuine statements. IMO these have some merit, but not enough to warrant answering.

Gold demand has been falling steadily for x years.

Gold demand (excluding investment demand) has been falling for x years.

Other investments (like houses) are a better investment.

The central banks will sell gold and knock the price down.

Interest rates will be raised and gold will plummet.

Buying gold just keeping energy intensive and polluting gold mines going.

A large gold discovery would knock the price.

There is no mechanism for gold to reach high prices.

Storage is expensive.

You have to find somewhere to put your physical gold that is safe.

You can't dispose of (liquidate) it quickly.

It is easier for 'them' to confiscate it than cash.

How do you know you're buying real Gold.

High commission buying and selling.

You can't trust a vault to really have your gold.

When the gold ETF blows up, the price of gold will crash.

There is no way to measure the price of gold.

Gold prices have been supported by jewellery for years but now that's dropped in volume and desperate bearish investors have bought their fill who else wants to buy it?

Goldbugs delude rational people into investing in a product, based on fear. This is a poor behaviour.

The following are genuine statements. IMO these are the statements that deserve consideration.

Gold is in a bubble.

The infomercial factor. The best indicator of a turning point for any investment, in my experience, is infomercials. If an investment gets so popular it invades the pre-dawn hours with non-stop but-wait-there’s-more offers, it’s time to get out. And that’s exactly what’s happening now. So much so companies like Cash4Gold.com are invading primetime television.

The gold market is manipulated so it will never go up.

Gold will go down with all other commodities due to deflation.

The price of oil and gold tend to track but we're in the worlds biggest recession for years so what do you think will happen to the price of oil as usage drops?
A world depression would knock the oil price and make mining gold much cheaper, and so knock the price.

The price of gold is based on the price of the futures. The margin requirements for futures could be increased limiting the ability of traders to trade in size. It has already happened once before. House prices are based on the availability of credit but so is gold.

You can't pay your taxes in gold.

Gold has been going up in price for about 8 years now, it's really due a major collapse in price.

Precious metals are notoriously volatile.

Gold is a hedge and if things aren't as bad as we think or the worst effects are avoided, then the value of our holdings will fall?

=============================================

I continue to study. I continue to follow economic events. If my posts appear to be positive towards gold it is because I have formed what I consider to be a good long term view. By long-term I mean at least a few years, but really more like a decade long view.

If I find anything which suggests that view might be wrong, I will change it.

So, onto my answers to the most important genuine aspects.

Is gold in a bubble?

This is probably the biggest worry for any investor. Am I getting in near the top, only to suffer a huge loss?
I hear the bubble claim from many, but none who I trust, and none who make a genuine case for their view.
At the moment I see adverts offering to buy gold from the public. In a gold bubble the public would be buying gold!
The goldbugs appear to be quite muted. I see no signs of a typical bubble.
Yes, when the price of gold is plotted in US$, the price does look like a bubble. But, when adjusted for inflation (or even real inflation), it does not. And of course long-term charts should be plotted on a log scale, because long-term all charts representing steady growth appear exponential. A bubble involves increasing growth rate, so a curve up on a log chart.

The gold market is manipulated so it will never go up.

From what I have read I believe there are good central bank policy reasons to manipulate the gold price. One could almost argue that they would not be doing their "job" if they did not.
But, believing that the gold price is manipulated does not mean believing the price cannot or does not rise.
It has risen since 2001.
It is possible that there is a secret hoard of gold (for example Yamashita's gold), and that manipulation can continue for longer than the most bullish goldbugs think, but if true, that would suggest only that a sudden explosion in price was not likely.

Deflation

There is a claim that if the world enters a deflationary phase, in which money gains in purchasing power, that the price of gold will fall along with everything else.
The problem everyone has in trying to predict is that the world has never before been on a pure fiat currency system before. So examples from history are not always available.
The arguments on this point are too detailed to go into in any detail now, but I do think this is a genuine matter.
In short, I think that if the world went into a serious deflationary period, the result would be total financial collapse, and none of the fiat currencies would survive.

You can't pay taxes with gold

This is actually a serious and important point. It can of course be solved by selling some gold and using the resultant legal tender currency to pay your taxes. This would be an issue if owning gold was made illegal.

Gold has been going up in price for about 8 years now, it's really due a major collapse in price.
Precious metals are notoriously volatile.

Yes, the price is volatile. Silver is even more so.
That is why I would never consider gold or silver as short or even medium term investments.
If you look at the 1970s gold bull market you will see a period in which the price dropped significantly before resuming the trend up.
My view is that everyone with "liquid wealth" (meaning cash or easily sold things) should have at least 10% of that invested in gold and some silver. And that that should be done now whatever the price.
Further purchases would be best done on the dips if possible, but always with the view that no selling would occur on any possible dips.

Gold is a hedge and if things aren't as bad as we think or the worst effects are avoided, then the value of our holdings will fall?

IMO there are two serious worries for the gold investor.

1. That somehow the world economy manages to grow and with low inflation. If the stock markets entered another long-term bull market phase that would probably be very bad for gold.

2. That interest rates will be raised very high, so that real interest rates are well above zero.
That would also likely be very bad for gold. IMO it would also destroy the world financial system, and gold would end up being a good investment.

====================================

So, am I guilty of confirmation bias?
Well in truth we must all be susceptible, but I am not guilty of thinking "it can only go up", like those who got involved the the tulip mania, the dot com bubble, the housing bubble etc etc.
Far from seeing gold as a quick way to get rich, I see it more as a rather boring harbour in which to moor until the storm has passed and during which others will likely drown.
It's not very exciting, it does nothing.

I am looking for the end of the storm. I am limited on my sources of reading because I have found no one who is anti-gold who makes genuine arguments as per my list above.
That leaves me mainly with those who are to some extent bullish on gold.
Of those there is a spectrum. Some are firmly in the "buy and hold" very bullish camp, while others trade gold (something which I do not agree with), are are short-term bullish and bearish depending on the charts etc, and hold a long-term bullish view only while they consider that right. Adam Hamilton is an example of the latter. So some of the "bulls" will be writing about "now is the time to sell so you can buy back in the dip".

Because I do not think trading gold is a good idea (even very dangerous), I do not post about selling. That leaves me with posting about good buying times, and times when I think it might be good to swap gold for silver or vice versa.

I am genuinely worried for those who have liquid wealth and have no insurance in gold or silver.
I fear that they do not understand how dangerous their position is at the moment.

Here are two very good options for buying gold & silver and having them stored for you in secure insured vaults:

Bullion Vault ......... and ......... Gold Money

For more details see this:

Why & Where to buy Gold & Silver
http://neuralnetwriter.cylo42.com/node/2535

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Gibber
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Looks like that was a challenge

Given the length of time between the challenge and the response it would seem you gave a fair bit of thought to it.

thanks

Kiwi Tyke
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Confirmation bias

Impressive summary of the gold perspective Happy horizontal clapping

It would be good if some of the property bulls could do something similar. I must confess to being less than convinced with property analysis including comments such as "moon shot" , etc. Roll Eyes

Looking forward to being persuaded otherwise. Smiling

Steve Netwriter
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Property Investment
Kiwi Tyke wrote:
Impressive summary of the gold perspective Happy horizontal clapping

It would be good if some of the property bulls could do something similar. I must confess to being less than convinced with property analysis including comments such as "moon shot" , etc. Roll Eyes

Looking forward to being persuaded otherwise. Smiling

Thanks Smiling

I hope you're not asking/expecting me to write something positive for property investment at the moment Smirf Smiling

I could list many positive reasons for owning property, but at the moment, gaining monetary wealth is not one of them ! Smiling

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jake
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Deflation There is a claim
Quote:
Deflation

There is a claim that if the world enters a deflationary phase, in which money gains in purchasing power, that the price of gold will fall along with everything else.
The problem everyone has in trying to predict is that the world has never before been on a pure fiat currency system before. So examples from history are not always available.
The arguments on this point are too detailed to go into in any detail now, but I do think this is a genuine matter.
In short, I think that if the world went into a serious deflationary period, the result would be total financial collapse, and none of the fiat currencies would survive.

This Prechterian (Deflation) worry is the major concern IMO. Would gold sink in a deflation? Prechter says it will and there will be your buying opportunity. Others say it won't as people rush to the safe haven of gold. I understand his words (prechters) but having been wrong for so long on gold, it is hard to sit 'waiting to buy' as the price marches on upwards. (dont worry, I haven't been idly waiting Smiling )

I would like to hear thoughts on this.You mention that the arguments are too detailed to go into here and I wondered if this could be looked at (or pointed in the direction of a thread where it has beeen discussed).

Fabulous article though. Thanks Steve.

Steve Netwriter
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What happens in a deflation?

Hi Jake,
I spent quite a few weeks looking at that very subject, but then ran out of time to publish the results Cry
And it was going to be a HUGE article.

I'll try and point you to a few things, but unfortunately it's not all pulled together into a nice coherent article.

My starting point is this:

The Great Credit Contraction - The RunToGold Pyramid
http://neuralnetwriter.cylo42.com/node/878

This covers some aspects:

The Monetary Base - What it is, and its relevance to predicting the gold price
http://neuralnetwriter.cylo42.com/node/519

Greg sees the risk:

Liquidity risk - by Greg Pytel of Imperial College London
http://neuralnetwriter.cylo42.com/node/1617

A simple explanation for New Zealand:

New Zealand’s Overseas Debt, The Banks, And The Crisis by Geoff Bertram
http://neuralnetwriter.cylo42.com/node/1710

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HERE IS PAGE ONE OF MY NOTES

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http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/95/Inverse_pyramid_of_Jo...

http://goldnews.bullionvault.com/files/gold_mining_production.png

http://i30.tinypic.com/1zmkpj5.jpg

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2009/10/gold-big-picture.html

http://georgewashington2.blogspot.com/2009/09/greenspan-backs-exeters-th...

http://goldversuspaper.blogspot.com/2009/01/funneling-down-pyramid.html

A Moneychanger Interview: Mr. John Exter
Simplex Munditiis
http://areyouworriedyet.com/John_Exeter.html
http://www.the-moneychanger.com/articles_files/mmm_files/economy/exter.p...
http://www.lbo.lk/fullstory.php?nid=1692291840

Quote:
October 4, 2006 (LBO) - John Exter is the father of the Central Bank of Sri Lanka, then known as the Central Bank of Ceylon. This article is reproduced on LBO with the kind permission of Franklin Sanders.

John Exter's Golden Pyramid
http://rangerider.blogspot.com/2008/03/john-exters-golden-pyramid.html

The Golden Pyramid
John Hathaway
August 28, 1999
Mr. Hathaway is a Senior Portfolio Manager at Tocqueville Asset Management L.P. and portfolio manager of The Tocqueville Gold Fund.
http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials_99/hathaway082899.html

Quote:
Think about this great business idea for a minute. Let's borrow some surplus stuff and sell it for whatever we can get. We'll buy a futures contract to get it back at some certain future date, so we're covered. Meanwhile, we'll earn an interest spread plus commissions. While we're at it, let's sell puts and calls against the stuff even if we don't have it on hand. Our mathematical models will guarantee that our position is always neutral, and we'll clean up on commissions, interest and other fees on the options too.

The foregoing approximates the rationale of the present day, little-known gold derivatives pyramid. John Exter, a famous gold analyst almost two generations ago, was the first to suggest that gold related to paper assets in the form of a pyramid. He described the relationship of gold to paper assets as an inverse pyramid balanced on trust. Currency at one time was a gold derivative. Government issue was backed by physical gold held by central banks. Because currency was a claim on gold, it was in effect a short position against a physical asset that was relatively easy to calculate. Governments hated the idea because they could never seem to stop issuing new paper. Even the pretense of a link has been long abandoned. Since currencies no longer have gold backing, and the world still appears to function, nouveau central bankers assert that gold is superfluous..

The old currency gold/pyramid has been replaced by a little understood labyrinth of paper claims against gold. Responsible senior officials of mining companies, central banks, and bullion banks cannot begin to understand the internal mechanics in order to make appropriate judgements of risk. There are few published figures, no reserve requirements, no supervision or regulation, and no accountability. It is the private domain of bullion dealers, central banks, and mining companies. The credit worthiness of the old currency/gold pyramid was quantifiable. The credit worthiness of the new pyramid can only be an educated guess. Our guess is that it is bankrupt.

A Frightening Worldwide Currency Crisis
An Unstable Monetary System
David Morgan
http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials_05/morgan010807.html
http://www.financialsense.com/editorials/morgan/2007/0108.html

The Value of Money
By Greg Pickup
January 3, 2003
Inflation is an increase in the money supply.
http://www.fame.org/HTM/greg%20Pickup%201%2010%2003%20report.htm

Quote:
“The Fed is locked into an expansionism it dares not stop, a prisoner of its own expansionism.” The words of John Exter are as timely today as when he wrote them in 1988. For those unfamiliar with the man, John Exter served six years as Vice President of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York in charge of gold, silver and international operations. In November 1988, he presented a paper from which the following comments are taken.

Quote:
“Most people today think the Fed, despite its running the printing presses at higher and higher speeds over the last three decades, has been doing a good job. I see it on the road to a far worse disaster than in the thirties.”

“The entire world’s monetary system is in serious disequilibrium. Since money runs like water, both within each currency and among them, market forces work every minute of every day trying to restore equilibrium, while central banks worldwide, especially our own Fed, intervene every minute of every day to prevent it. So uncertainty abounds. Markets do not like uncertainty.”

“Eventually markets will win, as they always have, so you should bet on markets. The problem is timing. Confidence erodes, but very slowly.”

“The safest and most liquid asset will be gold. It will be [by] far the biggest run out of paper money into gold money in history. I cannot say when, but it is now months, not years away.”

Systemic Fiat Currency Risk & John Exter's Golden Triangle
By Jay Taylor
Oct 18, 2002
http://www.soyouthinkyoucanrant.com/ind/Taylor/oct182002.html

Quote:
John Exter's Inverted Financial Triangle Built on Gold

In an interview with a favorite stock broker of ours, namely Ron Gilchrist earlier this year, he told us of the inverted financial triangle concept devised by John Exter. John tutored Ron Gilchrist early in Ron's stock brokering career. John Exter is one very rare creature. He is a former central banker that believes we should build our monetary system on gold. What makes this even stranger is that John was a member of the Council of Foreign Relations, which is an anti-gold, pro collectivist, pro-fiat currency organization that is in your editor's view at the very heart of what ails America. But that's an issue for another day. What made me think of John Exter was a reference to his inverted financial triangle concept last week by Richard Russell. Richard pointed out how gold is the only asset that cannot default. As such it is at the bottom of the inverted triangle while assets of the highest risk are at the top of the inverted triangle. Financial assets at the top are the first to self-destruct.

So at the top of the inverted triangle are the equity markets, which have to a great extent already begun a process of significant self-destruction. Some $8.4 trillion of wealth has already been lost from equities. Next to fall are the debt markets and we have begun to see lower quality issues now defaulting at levels not seen since the 1930's. According to Ned Davis who spoke on CNBC last week, an amazing 40% of junk bonds are now in default. Davis noted on Ron Insana's show that a normal default rate is 2%. A 12% rate was about as bad as junk bonds had gotten in the past. So the 40% default rate represents major, major problems in lower quality debt instruments. Next to decline will be higher grade paper followed by government debt itself. Finally, Treasury Bills and bank deposits will begin to evaporate and all that will be left standing will be gold. That is why gold gains value even faster than paper in a deflationary environment.

So, even though paper money itself may gain purchasing power in a deflation, the system upon which it was manufactured comes tumbling down as the debt load can no longer be serviced. This in fact has begun to take place in Japan. Investors are not sure their deposits will be available to them when they go to take their money out of their accounts, so they continue to exchange their yen for gold, which is one reason gold has performed well this year.

Quote:
The theory goes that, in a deleveraging, people scramble to get down into the cone of the pyramid. Sort of like Leonardo diCaprio and Kate Winslett trying to get up to the tip of the Titanic as it sinks under them.

The surge in the USD represents people getting out of derivatives and leverage and into Treasury Bonds. This is already a goodly distance down into the tip of the pyramid.

Only cash and gold remain.

https://www.kitcomm.com/showthread.php?t=27538

http://www.lesjones.com/2009/09/09/word-of-the-day-john-exters-inverted-...

Lots in this one:

FOFOA: All Paper is STILL a short position on gold
Monday, March 23, 2009
http://fofoa.blogspot.com/2009/03/all-paper-is-still-short-position-on.html

Quote:
And during an asset deflation, capital flows down the pyramid. In deflation "Cash is King", a point I made in On "Hyperinflation". But the question is what is really the "cash" that statement is referring to? What is really the bottom of that inverse pyramid that capital is striving for? Is it government paper? Or is it still the old foundation, gold?
...
But the actual electronic money credits that can be spent, cannot be destroyed, unless a bank fails and actual M1 deposits are not replaced by the government (FDIC). The only credit which is destroyed is money that has been stored in assets (asset deflation) and the ability of people to draw money into the present from their future productivity (credit cards, financing, etc...). The destruction of those do not reduce the money supply. They create "asset deflation", but not monetary deflation more commonly known as "price deflation".
...
FOFOA: Here, let me help you out with this picture. During a credit expansion like we have had for the last 27 years or so, capital flows UP the inverse pyramid. And as the private sector leverages up and creates credit money in many multiples of real money, it creates new products to buy. New places to store this "wealth". John Exter created his inverse pyramid in the 1970's, so let's add some new, monstrous levels for the 21st century. The arrows show how capital flows during a credit expansion:

Quote:
That's right, it's flowing down the inverse pyramid as those upper levels shrivel and dry up. There is much loss of perceived value in this downward flow. In fact, that's what's causing it. But as we bail out entities like AIG so they can pay off the winning tickets held by Goldman Sachs and others, we are feeding more good money into this downward cascade. What should have been a loss of perceived wealth is actually being converted into REAL, SPENDABLE wealth at the taxpayer's expense. "Whew!", says Goldman Sachs as he collects on his winning ticket. Do you think that fresh digital money he just collected is going to go back UP the inverse pyramid? Not a chance! It will go down to safety along with everything else.

Quote:
FOFOA: In the inverse pyramid, each level you go up is essentially a derivative of the lower levels. And during expansionary times those derivatives yield a little more than the lower levels. That is why capital climbs during the good times. But when PRINCIPLE is destroyed, this dwarfs the meager benefits of a yield and the capital scurries down the ladder to safety.

FOFOA: Got it! Thanks. But wasn't that more of a long-winded explanation of the difference between "money" and "assets" (or let's say between "wealth" and "perceived wealth")? Credit is essentially the ability to pull future capital into the present. Digital money credits are different, they are actually money, just like printed paper money. And wealth held in shitty assets is neither credit nor money. Right? It is simply an asset, or a derivative of an asset that gives you the perception of holding wealth, until "all that paper starts to burn".

and this reply:

Quote:
During the credit expansion, new monetary units are created constantly. None of these units have disappeared. The credit expansion has stopped, but all the previous monetary units remain. And all the assets that were inflated during the expansion are now collapsing because the flow of new credits which fed the new assets has stopped. But money is not disappearing.

So now money is flowing downward into much smaller vessels. All the previous monetary units remain, and new ones are still being created by the Fed right now. But they are not flowing into those higher asset levels. They are and will continue to flow into lower ones which are much smaller.

So first of all, it is a mistake to think of the value of any assets as part of the money supply. And secondly, it is a mistake to think that just because the costs of higher levels of the pyramid are falling, that the cost of the entire pyramid will fall.

We could add an infinite number of pancakes into that pyramid. We could put in a level for gasoline. We could put in a level for bread. Anything that money can flow through, can have a level in the pyramid. And as capital abandons the dangerous heights for the safety of the foundation, the size or value of that foundation will swell.

You said, "gold is also an asset I believe (just for the record)."

That is because you believe they successfully removed the foundation of the pyramid and stuck it up amongst the investment categories. But consider this. Those same central banks that tell you gold is merely an asset still consider it a monetary reserve. Even the US Fed counts its gold as a reserve, albeit at a low valuation. So what do all the central bankers know that they aren't telling us? Why are the central banks net buyers of gold right now? Are they just building "assets"? Or is something else going on?

and

Quote:
I think he put commodities up in the top as an "investment class". Notice the groupings are gold, then money, then usury, then investments.

You say, "of the entire list commodoties and gold have the most in common"

This is the point. Gold is money, not a commodity. But the CB's have tried to shove gold up with the commodities, to convince the sheeple it is a mere commodity, a mere investment.

ANOTHER (THOUGHTS!)
Foundational Gold Trail Commentary
The Inside Story on the Gold-for-Oil Deal that could Rock the World's Financial Centers
http://www.usagold.com/goldtrail/archives/another1.html

Walking the Gold Trail Using the "Thoughts!" of ANOTHER
http://www.usagold.com/goldtrail/archives/goldtrailone.html

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HERE IS PAGE TWO OF MY NOTES

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2009 Oct All That Glitters is Gold
http://www.scribd.com/doc/21411694/2009-Oct-All-That-Glitters-is-Gold
Written By: Ian Gordon & Christopher Funston
of Longwave Group

Quote:
Understanding inflation and deflation is critical to making the right investment decisions. Strictly speaking, inflation is simply an increase in the supply of money and deflation is a decrease in the money supply. Most financial advisors are now calling for inflation to resume
and even hyper-inflation to run rampant in the United States, because of the Federal Reserve’s current effort to circumvent deflation by excessive money printing. We are of the opposite, and certainly the minority, view. We believe that central banks will be unable to forestall
deflation and that when it arrives, it will be unprecedented in magnitude. This conclusion is based upon three factors:

• Once the debt bubble is unwound, it is deflationary in nature because it is painful and results in bankruptcies on both side of the ledger. Actually, it takes money out of the system and during our Kondratieff winter, trillions of dollars of debt will be expunged. Total debt in the United States is now approximately $58 trillion. If we exclude government debt, which is approximately $15 trillion, this leaves $43 trillion of consumer, corporate and fnancial debt underpinning the U.S. economy. How much of that is destroyed is any-
one’s guess, but it is likely to total at least $22 trillion. This money is effectively destroyed.

• Under these circumstances, banks won’t lend money. Those banks that survive bankruptcies, and most won’t, will conserve it. Consumers and corporations won’t be able to borrow money, even if they so desire.

• The velocity of money will essentially come to a standstill, since there will be none to spend. Money will be hoarded, either under the mattress, or in banks that consumers believe will survive the debt deflationary onslaught. During inflation, as in the 1970s, the
velocity of money increases as people spend today, rather than pay higher prices tomorrow. In deflation, as in the 1930s, those few people with money curtail their spending in the knowledge that prices will be lower tomorrow, next month and next year. As the early 19th Century saying goes ‘money like manure, does no good till it is spread’.

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HERE IS PAGE THREE OF MY NOTES

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This is the first interview I listened to:

Contrary Investors Cafe: Trace Mayer Inflation+Deflation=Confusion 14th July 2009 - A fabulous interview
http://www.neuralnetwriter.cylo42.com/node/2181

This one is tremendous, with a really neat description of money and currency.

04/07/2009 Money vs. Currency: Anatomy of the Collapse
http://www.contraryinvestorscafe.com/jw_04072009.mp3

from:
http://www.contraryinvestorscafe.com/partners.php?pid=62246

=============================

How's that? Smiling

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jake
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Joined: 04/03/2010
That'll teach me for

That'll teach me for asking... Shrug Shoulders
Seriously will hole up away from the kids for an hour or 10 and digest that lot later in the week. Shocked Quite an assignment.
Just skimming along..couldn't find any Prechter links in there but I am a regular Ian Gordon reader over at longwave. In a nutshell, how do you see Prechter's delation? (only a nutshell mind) Smiling

PS Great smileys you got there!

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