Société Générale: Worst-case debt scenario - Protecting yourself against economic collapse 4th Quarter 2009 (Nov 2009)

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Steve Netwriter
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Quote:
Société Générale has advised clients to be ready for a possible "global economic collapse" over the next two years, mapping a strategy of defensive investments to avoid wealth destruction.
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In a report entitled "Worst-case debt scenario", the bank's asset team said state rescue packages over the last year have merely transferred private liabilities onto sagging sovereign shoulders, creating a fresh set of problems.
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Overall debt is still far too high in almost all rich economies as a share of GDP (350pc in the US), whether public or private. It must be reduced by the hard slog of "deleveraging", for years.
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"As yet, nobody can say with any certainty whether we have in fact escaped the prospect of a global economic collapse," said the 68-page report, headed by asset chief Daniel Fermon. It is an exploration of the dangers, not a forecast.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/6599281/Societe-Generale-te...

Here is the full report:

Société Générale Worst Case Debt Scenario Fourth Quarter Nov 2009

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Steve Netwriter
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My review

After reading this you should think owning some gold & silver is a really good idea!
Here are two very good options:

Bullion Vault

Gold Money

For more details see this:

Why & Where to buy Gold & Silver
http://neuralnetwriter.cylo42.com/node/2535

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In this report they start with:

1. World debt is 2.5x what it was 10 years ago.

2. Debt/GDP of advanced economies projected to 150%.

GDP is supposed to be a measure of the amount of economic activity. Unfortunately, building a missile and then exploding it, counts as GDP, as does knocking down a flyway (China), and then rebuilding it.
So we must start with the knowledge that GDP is a pretty iffy indicator.

What does Debt/GBP mean?

Making it simple, looking at a company, I think GDP equates to gross sales.
So debt/GDP = debt/gross sales.

IMO the real question is "what are the company profits?".

What we are interested in is debt/net profit.
Or in country terms, debt/tax revenue.

Or even, debt/spare tax revenue.
In other words, after spending on what you have to spend money on, what have you got left to service your debt costs.

GDP is also subject to manipulation due to its reliance on the CPI.

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Their suggestion of government securities is amazing to me.
Yields are below real CPI increases, and they rely on "faith in the government" and the actual ability of the government to be able to pay.

Can anyone explain to me why government bonds are a good idea?

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This is the graph I was trying to find time to do yesterday !

This is the most important chart
Please look at this one carefully. IMO this one is THE chart to study.

This chart shows:

1. How much revenue the US government is getting in.
2. US government expenditure.

Mind the gap!!!

I'd like to see expenditure broken down to show debt cost. That's what I intended to do.

more....

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Steve Netwriter
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Quote: Contrary to developed
Quote:
Contrary to developed countries where stimulus plans only brought a halt to the economic
meltdown, emerging market's stimulus plans, specifically China's, are working very well. Debt
is not a problem for emerging markets as debt/GDP is below 50% in most countries (apart
from India where it stands at 80%). The most visible success of these plans has been in China
which returned to an 8% growth estimate for 2009, and is driving the recovery in commodity
prices. But, emerging market economies may no longer be prepared to finance the western
world's exponential debt, particularly that of the US, as borne out by recent declarations from
Chinese officials.

As I suspected, this report suffers from one major flaw. It relies on official GDP numbers, and appears to fail to examine the detail.
I think there is ample evidence that far from working well, the China stimulus (15% of GDP !!!) is creating a massive bubble.

=================

Please note this:

Quote:
A last resort....sovereign defaults

Although it is the last survival option in the bag, sovereign borrowers may have to default; and
could do so with limited strings attached as they are not subject to bankruptcy courts in their
own jurisdiction, and would hence avoid legal consequences. One example is North Korea,
which in 1987 defaulted on some of its government bonds and loans. In such cases, the
defaulting country and the creditor are more likely to renegotiate the interest rate, length of the
loan, or the principal payments. During the 1998 Russian financial crisis, Russia defaulted on its
internal debt, but did not default on its external Eurobonds.

Further back in history, European countries frequently defaulted - Spain did so 13 times in the
Middle Ages. The damage to the country's economy can be harsh as it will suffer from higher
interest rates and capital constraints in the future. But remember that all major economies
apart from the US have a long history of sovereign defaults.

I repeat. Government securities Thinking Big Smirf

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Steve Netwriter
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The inflation 'solution'
Quote:
Though it certainly makes
things more difficult for the savers of the world or those who are living on a fixed income, for
the US, with an $11 trillion public deficit, and half of its publicly traded debt issued outside of
the US, inflation would play the role of a necessary evil. Thus as the lesser of two evils,
inflation could avoid an otherwise painful deleveraging process at unsustainable costs. But the
interest rate hikes needed to control the inflation would hurt the average consumer as debt
servicing costs would surge.

What do they mean by 'inflation' ?

I think they mean prices rising. That means the purchasing power of your currency going down.
Now compare falling purchasing power with the yields available on government securities.
I agree, 'inflation' is most likely the chosen 'solution'.

It's easier to print more currency than default or raise taxes or reduce spending.

It's only electronic digits. Printing has never been so easy.

==========

Comparing low deb/GDP countries with high debt/GDP countries this is like comparing someone who's lived the high life with someone who has been 'careful'.

If you borrow and spend now, you reduce your future ability to spend.

You bring from the future at the expense of what you can spend in that future.

This is basic stuff. Peter Schiff explains it well in his book.

====================

I don't think they really understand the gold issue.

Quote:
Implications of a Bear scenario on Metals & Mining and forecast returns

Gold: under the bear scenario, the markets would remain nervous about fiscal imbalances and
the timing, or effectiveness of exit strategies, raising fears of stagflation. This would point to
sustained investment in gold, although perhaps not enough to push long-term prices higher
given weak fundamental demand. On a relative basis, gold would be expected to outperform,
being a hedge against dollar risk.

Quote:
Implications of a Central scenario on Metals & Mining and forecast returns

Gold: slow recovery improves market confidence and thus reduces the purchase of gold as a
risk hedge; longer term it may even see some reduction in market length. This reduction
investment activity would not be offset by recovering physical demand as the latter would take
a lot longer than the former and the equilibrium gold price would have to come down.

Quote:
Determining the implications of a Bull scenario on Metals & Mining and forecast returns

Gold: investors continue to use gold as a hedge against inflation while recovery in economic
conditions spurs a rapid improvement in physical demand. Scrap return tempers rises from
time to time, but gold remains positive. Project finance and higher contango may increase
mine hedging, but not in enough volume to contain price increases

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Kiwi Tyke
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Worst Case Report
Steve Netwriter
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A more in-depth review

Thanks KT Smiling

Quote:
Okay, below is their entire 68 page document that reads, well, frankly like a horror show. And you know what, it’s the closest thing I’ve seen to the truth in a long time that comes from a commercial bank. Of course this is their worst-case scenario, not their favored one. Well, I don’t think anyone favors economic collapse, except when it can potentially bring down the oligarchs who brought the debt slavery to the world… yeah, on the other hand maybe it will be cheered!
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Now, GDP is NOT calculated today like it was back then... today’s GDP number is VASTLY OVERSTATED.
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That’s where I’m headed, I think you’ll find that freedom is much closer to you when your money doesn’t come into being as an interest bearing instrument of debt.

That's an excellent review. I see we share many views Smiling
Although I am a "goldbug", I am not boxed in to the idea that we should have a gold standard.
I find the arguments of Bernard Lietear re the problems of charging interest very appealing:

Bernard Lietaer Author of The Future of Money
http://neuralnetwriter.cylo42.com/forum/50

and in particular relevance to options is this one:

White Paper on All the Options for Managing a Systemic Bank Crisis by Bernard Lietaer
http://neuralnetwriter.cylo42.com/node/66

I also hope people can see "outside the box", and that is one reason I constantly post certain articles.

The replies also suggest further reading.

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Steve Netwriter
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How to Stop the Elite Conspiracy - Starving the Beast

How to Stop the Elite Conspiracy From Building a New World Order By Starving the Beast

Quote:
Nice to find your inflation/deflation matrix in a Societe General research paper. Overnight USD/DOW/Gold action. When will the crisis be over and end? Is it more important to find out who, what, where why and how than it is to stop the crisis from eating away at us until we are gone. Starving the beast may be the only option from speeding the end of the greatest fraud mankind has ever known.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXnHnfBGcsM

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