Ian Gordon (the thinking man's Robert Prechter) says "Get out of stocks NOW!"

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Steve Netwriter
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Ian Gordon is the thinking man's Robert Prechter Smiling
Why? Because Robert doesn't get gold. And to be honest, I get fed up with hearing all this Elliot Wave stuff.

I am sceptical of ALL these cycle people when they predict exact cycle lengths. Yes there are cycles, cyclical moves back and forth, but they don't repeat like a clock.
IMO anyone who predicts an exact date is delusional.

This is a good shortish interview with Ian Gordon. Worth a listen.

http://www.howestreet.com/audiovideo/index.php?pl=/goldradio/index.php/m...

He says:

This is a bear market that is going to be devastating.
Far bigger than any bear market we've experienced in our lifetime.

(the Dow peak at 14,000 to a low of roughly 6,600)

The stock market is where it was in 1998.
Unlike Robert Prechter I'm extremely bullish on gold and have been since 1999.
He talks about the DOW/Gold ratio, and the cycles.

I've forecast the stock market to lose 93% of its value, down to 1,000 on the DOW (Precheter is saying far worse than that).
Gold to 4,000 or higher than that.

Prechter is in cash.
Ian thinks that's not a bad idea in a deflationary environment.

I think that's dangerous. Gold is the safe option.

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shuttle
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Thanks for the link

Hi Steve - thanks for that link very interesting. I have never heard of Ian Gordon before but I will be taking a look at his website. I agree with your comments on Robert Prechter. The media always focus on his correct calls but ignore the predictions that were wrong.

I have been short the S&P since April 2008. In hindsight I should have closed this trade out in March 2009, but it is still profitable and I am now looking to add to my short position and in particular include the FTSE 100 as I am very bearish on the UK economy.

Steve Netwriter
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K-Wave Winter Update Part 1

K-Wave Winter Update Part 1

From http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-v2h_pp7RZU

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shuttle
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Chris Martenson

hi Steve - I have just been reading one of Chris Martenson's blogs regarding fractional reserve banking http://www.chrismartenson.com/blog/exponential-money-finite-world/29744
I think it fits in nicely with Ian Gordon's predictions because as CM states FRB can only function if there is continuous credit growth. It seems to me that we have now reached the limits of growth for this economic cycle and as a result the economy has stalled. I also think that Steve Keen is correct when he says that the only way out of the GFC is for debts to be written off because it will be impossible for the debtors to pay them back.

Steve Netwriter
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Previous Ian Gordon Articles

Hi shuttle,
I like to link back to previous relevant articles I posted, but I've not had so much time recently.

On Ian Gordon, previous articles are:

Ian Gordon of LongwaveGroup: Winter Comes Early on HoweStreet with Stirling Faux 30th Oct 2009
http://neuralnetwriter.cylo42.com/node/2248

Ian Gordon: Riding The Waves - Wow now that's gloomy !
http://neuralnetwriter.cylo42.com/node/1047

There is a time for stocks and a time for gold. Now is the time for gold, Ian Gordon says
http://neuralnetwriter.cylo42.com/node/440

This one is a MUST READ IMVHO Ashamed

Gold is a dreadful investment because..... All the reasons to avoid Gold by Steve Netwriter
http://neuralnetwriter.cylo42.com/node/2167

Note it quotes FOFOA and Ian Gordon and the famous John Exter's golden pyramid.

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Steve Netwriter
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Does the charging of interest require growth?
shuttle wrote:
hi Steve - I have just been reading one of Chris Martenson's blogs regarding fractional reserve banking http://www.chrismartenson.com/blog/exponential-money-finite-world/29744
I think it fits in nicely with Ian Gordon's predictions because as CM states FRB can only function if there is continuous credit growth. It seems to me that we have now reached the limits of growth for this economic cycle and as a result the economy has stalled. I also think that Steve Keen is correct when he says that the only way out of the GFC is for debts to be written off because it will be impossible for the debtors to pay them back.

IMO this is a huge point, and one that I have not answered to my satisfaction. I think Chris does an amazing job, but on that one point, I have not been convinced either way.

So at the moment, I have to assume either possibility:

1. The charging of interest means inflation is necessary for it to function.

2. The charging of interest does not prevent an equilibrium system from working.

If #1 is true, then one can draw conclusions as Chris has done.

If #2 is true, then inflation is not fundamental to the system, but the result of the actions of society.

Whichever is true however, one can look at the current state and compare it as Niall Ferguson did:

Fiscal Crises and Imperial Collapses: Historical Perspective on Current Predicaments by Niall Ferguson : MUST LISTEN / WATCH
http://neuralnetwriter.cylo42.com/node/2919

and conclude that debt levels over 90% of GDP have always in the past resulted in severe collapses (Rogoff and Reinhart).

So IMO collapse is inevitable, the question is, should we have a different monetary system to that we don't have to repeat these mistakes cyclically forever.

I think the recent article by FOFOA on the fight between debtors and savers was very interesting, and relevant:

The Debtors and the Savers
http://neuralnetwriter.cylo42.com/node/3145

Maybe Santa will buy this for me Smiling

This Time is Different Eight Centuries of Financial Folly By Carmen M. Reinhart, Kenneth Rogoff
http://neuralnetwriter.cylo42.com/node/2977

Quote:
Rogoff and Reinhart, two very substantive (and, I might add, earnest) economists, have produced a prodigious work which will be read and studied for years. They have gathered mountains of data from primary and secondary sources and reduced it to dozens of charts and graphs, a heroic work in its own right. Their intention, God bless 'em, is to lay out the follies that have led to economic/financial crises over the last eight centuries. Their findings: humans have not learned from past mistakes.

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shuttle
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This Time is Different Eight Centuries of Financial Folly

Hi Steve - I am currently reading this book which I have borrowed from ChCh City Library. It is a very well researched book but for me it is written for an academic audience and so far I have found it heavy going. Thinking Big

I will have a look at those Ian Gordon links when I have time. I am currently busy deciding on my shorting strategy for the US/UK/European markets.

Steve Netwriter
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Library!

Humf, I didn't think of the library, I didn't think it would be there so soon.
Now the question is, WHEN SOMEONE RETURNS IT Smiling do I have time to read it?

http://librarydata.christchurch.org.nz/web2/tramp2.exe/goto/A1mtfs38.001...

"Central Library 338.54 REI Book On Loan"

A guess you realise that shorting is just playing the financial game, and it could all become worthless overnight, even if on paper you've made a killing.
Now who was it who said the best way to short the financial system is to buy gold? Smiling

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Capt Goodvibes
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getting out of stocks

With regard to the title of this thread (get out of stocks, now!), I have copied this from an email I received this morning, as at seems relevant:

Paul Nathan wrote:
Trader Alert

If you are a long term investor this article probably won't mean much to you. But if you trade a part of your portfolio, you might want to pay close attention to the following observations.

About nine months ago, my strategy of placing protective stops under my "buys" started working against me instead of for me. I hadn't fully realized this until recently. I knew something was wrong. Something changed. I kept saying "do you know what the odds are of making this many consecutive losing trades? Like most traders who had very good years recently, this year has been a tough one. Then I realized it wasn't just me. Lately, I've been hearing conformation from the street of the very same results.

Many of the top investment advisors handling some of the biggest portfolios have retreated to the side lines. Mutual Fund managers are said to be confused why their models are no longer working. Most traders and hedge funds admit that no one on the street -- bulls or bears -- are making any money. Huge amounts of cash is building up on the sidelines and is not being put to work, invested, or even lent out. Something very different is going on.

I'm sure I do not know the complete answer to this change, but I think I know part of it. The tip off was a recent firing of 15% of traders at a major trading firm. The reason given was that they were no longer needed -- they were being replaced with "black boxes". It has become known that recently black boxes make more money trading than humans. These black boxes are super computers that can identify a change in trend and trade it in a nano second. And it can do this all over the world in any market taking into account the various currency values and discrepancies and arbitrage those instantly. Computer models have been developed that are designed to initiate what is called, "flash trades". This high tech, high frequency trading, is a game changer.

Flash trading is replacing human judgment. It is certainly beating it daily. We live in a brave new world and it is not stopping for anyone and it is neither controllable nor predictable. The common thread running through this new form of trading is that it tends to create extreme volatility. It runs stops and virtually wipes them out.

The "flash crash" was a great example of this. Once the market broke technical support it fell a thousand points in ten minutes. By the end of the day it was as if nothing happened except a bad day in the market as we recouped most all of the loss. But everyone with defensive sell stops in place were removed from the market. The black boxes, in effect, ran the table.

Let me tell you a story of what happened in my situation that particular day. I had a buy stop in as a strategy to take advantage of a falling market. My plan was to take an initial position in TZA, an ETF that is short the market at 7. If it moved to 6 I'd re enter the market. If it moved to 8, I'd by more. I placed a sell stop just under my initial position at 6.75. The market dropped like a rock, TZA soared, and I bought it at 8 (something I expected to happen in about a month from then not in 10 minutes.) Then the market rallied and I was stopped out of my original position!

Consider it: We had one of the biggest market drops on record , I was short, and I was sitting in a loss position! Do you know what the odds are for something like that happening? Then I realized that to one degree or another this had been happening since about November of 2009.

There was a time when the individual trader could beat the boards of huge funds by interpreting news and acting faster than most large institutions. That was called being nimble. That era, I'm afraid is over. Boards have been replaced by computers.

This is what has led me to change trading tactics. The trend is no longer your friend, if you're a trader. It was always safer to buy the trend than to try and pick a bottom or top. Today, you must be a contrarian. You've got to buy the dips and sell the rips. I have been stopped out of my short position in the market as we went through 1040 earlier this week on the S&P 500. I am looking at re-entering short at about 1100. But, I am fully aware that the upside on the DOW could be substantially higher. So, I will not remain short if we rally convincingly above that level. The bulls make a good case that we could touch the upper end of this years trading range. The key is to take losses quickly, keep opening positions small, and add to them if the trend continues.

Meanwhile, buy and hold is the key to all resource stocks -- or any good stocks for that matter. The day to day, and week to week trading, will not affect good stocks over the long run. The same with gold and silver. The trend is still up and until proved otherwise, the metals sector is a long term hold.

My view is we will eventually enter a new bear market if we aren't already in one. I want to be short, but I will keep all positions small and ladder in. I will also place mental stops rather than physical ones to avoid being stopped out by extreme volatility. Volatility is now something you can count on and therefore plan on. The bottom line is that trading is going to take a lesser role in my investment portfolio, and cash and long term positions will increase.

Remember, we have to play the market we are given -- not the one we wished we had.

Paul Nathan

Steve Netwriter
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Thanks Capt

Thanks Capt, very interesting Smiling

I've always been a long-term investor, but it's interesting to see how traders are getting on.

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